Maybe the Miata is not the Answer.

"JR1" (type35bugatti)
04/09/2014 at 17:30 • Filed to: Miata, rant, saturn sky, pontiac solstice, oppositelock

I have a theory. But first I have to put on my flame suit. Ok now I am ready, we always say the Miata is the answer, why is that? Why do we all cling to a car that is forever condemned by the public to be a girl's car? Is it because it is fun? Because racecar? Because the Miata is cheap? No. We cling to the Miata for a different reason. We cling to the Miata because we have nothing else to cling to.

I am just going to say it. The Miata is slow. Yes I know what you're going to say, "The convertible top and wonderful inline make the car feel fast!" I won't argue with that the car does at least feel fast. But at the end of the day even if you have a new shiny Miata you're still only getting to 60 in 6.9 seconds. Not to ruin your day but an overzealous soccer mom in a Ford Explorer can beat that time. Yet we still cling to the Miata like babies clinging to a pacifier.

We cling to the Miata because we don't have a choice. We cling to the Miata because other car companies don't make fun and affordable sports cars. Sometimes we get lucky however and the gods of motoring shin down upon us and give us better choices than the vanilla Miata. One of the greatest competitors of the Miata in recent years to fight against it is of course the Toybaru twins.

Faster, better looking, and they sell more cars combined in the United States than the Miata does. The twins are a great alternative to the Miata. And they could sell more. If they put a turbo on the car or cut off the roof the BRZ and FRS could easily outsell the Miata.

If you insist on having a roadster however there is another choice that is better than the Miata. The Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice. Those two great cars however became unfortunate victims of the GM bankruptcy. Combined these two twins outsold the Miata every year they were in production. If you didn't combine the two separate companies sales they still managed to outsell the Miata for several years. If you got the two-liter turbo the twins could hit 60 in less that 6 seconds! That blows the doors off any Miata ever made. Still think the answer is Miata?

The future of the Miata being the go to answer might be in question. With the rumors of an Alfa or Fiat roadster on the rise chances are the Miata could be in trouble. There are better answers than the Miata. After all just because it has been in production the longest does not mean it is the best.

Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_S…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_Sk…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_BR…

http://www.caranddriver.com/mazda/mx-5-mia…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_MX-…

http://www.caranddriver.com/ford/explorer

Photo Credit:

www.buzcar.com

www.onemansblog.com

wpmedia.driving.ca

www.smartcarnews.com

DISCUSSION (94)

Frank Grimes > JR1
04/09/2014 at 17:33

cant hear you through the flame suit please open the helmet a bit. I think there is something to be said about driving experience and the light weight of the miata.

Kinja'd!!!

Dunnik > JR1
04/09/2014 at 17:34

I love the Miata - how can you not? But ever since the FRS came out, Miata is not my automatic answer for "cheap, fun, affordable and reliable sports car".

Kinja'd!!!

therotaryisdeadlonglivetherotary > JR1
04/09/2014 at 17:37

You are missing the amount of energy Mazda engineers expend trying to make the Miata a truly tactile experience, with proper feedback instead of being a fast, lifeless lump. We cling to the Miata because it is a driver focused vehicle from a driver focused company – a company that understands the slow car fast mantra. The FRS does that too, but it is newer, and the Sky by all accounts was closer to a top down cruiser than a sports car. In short, Mazda wooed us (us! the enthusiasts all other car companies seem to ignore because we don't bring in enough money) with the Miata and though it has failings how can you ever forget the love of your youth?

Saracen > JR1
04/09/2014 at 17:38

The Miata is great because it is dirt cheap, reliable, has great steering and is fantastically fun to throw into the corners even at sane speeds. That's why Jalops love it.

You're too focused on horsepower. I think a V6 Mustang convertible is more your cup of tea.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > JR1
04/09/2014 at 17:38

When Miata is not the answer, it's certainly possible 50s-early 70s FoMoCo hulk projects are.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > JR1
04/09/2014 at 17:39

Because slow car fast, and because light makes right.

The Sky and Solstice are both part of that huge recall, fwiw.

crowmolly > JR1
04/09/2014 at 17:39

All depends on what you want to do with the car.

The Miata would make a pretty bad drag or street/strip car. Or long distance cruiser. Or rock crawler. Or family hauler. Or tow vehicle.

The focus on road racing and auto-x on here is what makes it such a stellar choice. And the experience behind the wheel is (as I think I mentioned previously) like a "big boy go kart".

davedave1111 > JR1
04/09/2014 at 17:39

"We cling to the Miata because we don't have a choice. We cling to the Miata because other car companies don't make fun and affordable sports cars."

No, other car companies don't make fun and affordable sports cars because the Miata/MX-5 is that good. It has a near monopoly by virtue of being an absolutely brilliant fun and affordable sports car.

Manuél Ferrari > JR1
04/09/2014 at 17:42

I hope you don't get murdered tonight!

Related question - is the base Carrera the Miata of its price bracket? It's slower than everything else that costs the same as it and slower than many cars that are cheaper than it. But most people love it and think it can do no wrong cause it's a 911. Is the C2 clinging to its cult status and not really all it's cracked up to be? Maybe 911 is not always the answer.

Note - I'm no C2 hater, I own one and love it. I've just been wondering recently if my car is like a more expensive Miata.

McLarry > JR1
04/09/2014 at 17:42

There's more to a car than speed... Who spends their time doing 0-60 runs on the road? That's not to say the car's underpowered - I agree it is, but it would be silly to say that's all it is. People don't buy Miatas for the speed, they buy them for that sweet 50/50 weight distribution that means excellent handling, that low price point that means you have some cash left over to actually use the car, and that reputation that means solid reliability, a healthy aftermarket community which means lots of help and diy guides. Yeah some say it's 'girly' (which...you condemn the Miata as girly, then suggest the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky as alternatives?) but it's the quintessential cheap drivers car... You don't buy it to win races, you buy it to drive it. I don't personally believe that Miata is always the answer (anybody that does is likely too big of a fanboy to answer objectively anyway), but to say it's not the answer to anything is equally foolish. In other words, it may not be the pinnacle of automotive accomplishment, but it's better than most.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > JR1
04/09/2014 at 17:46

And maybe you're completely wrong.

It's not always about 0-60 times, HP figures, and lateral-G stats.

Sometimes is just about how much fun it is interacting with a machine for the sheer fun of it.

JR1 > therotaryisdeadlonglivetherotary
04/09/2014 at 17:51

I suppose my beef with the Miata (even if it is great) is we tend to forget other alternatives that are equally as enticing. I am not saying don't buy a Miata. The heart wants what the heart wants. Before you throw your money at the Miata however I think it is important to remember there are alternatives. Even a 1970s MG if a roadster is your thing.

Burrito de EJ25 > JR1
04/09/2014 at 17:54

Power is for philistines.

JR1 > McLarry
04/09/2014 at 17:55

I am not saying it isn't the answer but sometimes other answers with similar traits can be equally as enticing. Take this MG for example.

Kinja'd!!!

Similar price for a used Miata, similar approach to design. The Miata is an excellent choice but alternatives are out there too.

JR1 > Frank Grimes
04/09/2014 at 17:56

You'll have to speak up I can't hear you over the flames!

Kinja'd!!!

JR1 > Manuél Ferrari
04/09/2014 at 17:58

That is a great point. I suppose the 911 is the Miata of the high class sports car world. But the question remains as to weather it's realy the best or has Porsche brainwashed us all?

MachtSchnell > JR1
04/09/2014 at 18:06

Great article, I've always understood the love of the Miata but never subscribed as I'm simply not into convertibles and slow ones at that. Good job though

D > JR1
04/09/2014 at 18:07

ICANT

Manuél Ferrari > JR1
04/09/2014 at 18:07

I struggle with that question myself. Like the Miata it is a very tactile car. And it's light for how big it is.

Does that make it the best in its price range?

I think the answer depends on how it will be used and where you live. Which I think holds true for the Miata as well.

If a car is going to do a lot of AutoX and/or track time then I would prefer to have a very tactile car. I'll take feel and precision over straight line speed when lots of corners are involved.

If the car will be used mostly or only on the road then the debate of feelz vs. horsepower doesn't simply come down to personal preference. I also think it depends on where you live. If you live somewhere where you have an awesome twisty commute to work then a nimble car with tons of feelz is awesome. But if your commute is on straight roads with stop and go traffic and lots of traffic lights then these types of cars aren't very enjoyable. A performance car with tons of grunt can be pretty fun when it's all stop and go even if the handling and steering feel isn't as good if you can't use those advantages in your daily driving.

Jayhawk Jake > JR1
04/09/2014 at 18:07

STOP WITH THE FUCKING ZERO TO 60 BULLSHIT!

I don't care that an explorer gets to 60 faster, have you ever driven one? That land behemoth may put down better numbers but it's boring as fuck while it does it. A lightweight convertible FEELS better, and is infinitely more fun to be in.

It's a stupid goddamn point. Zero to 60 times are pointless unless you are literally timing eery single fucking moment in your car.

What matters the most is how the car feels . A miata feels a fuckload more fun than a god damn soccer mom express.

Beyond that, you make a valid point. I don't think when we answer miata we always mean specifically a miata. Something that follows the miata formula is just as good. Of all of the lightweight sportscasts though the miata is the best value. Prices stay low, they are reliable and easy to fix, and the aftermarket is strong

Bluecold > JR1
04/09/2014 at 18:15

"With the rumors of an Alfa or Fiat roadster on the rise chances are the Miata could be in trouble. "

You do realize those will be built on the same platform as the new Miata right?

Team6.1 > JR1
04/09/2014 at 18:31

I liked go carts too when I was 10. Miata is overhyped, played out, and it's never my answer. My question also isn't ever "what's the cheapest rwd fun 2 seat car" because I'll take power any day. Power is fun

McLarry > JR1
04/09/2014 at 19:10

To be sure... Personally I think I would buy an MGB over a Miata; it wouldn't handle as well or go as fast, but it's certainly more interesting.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > JR1
04/09/2014 at 19:11

Yes because the FRS is sooooo much faster to 60mph, 6.2 sec versus 6.9 sec, whooo weeee watch out!!!! Speed demon over here.

I own a Miata and have test driven FRS and BRZ and i can tell you the Miata feels faster. Who cares what the 0-60 times are. Both will be beat by most SUV's. The Miata is made to be like a go cart not a drag car. If that is all you care about then you need to look at other cars beside the Miata and BRZ/FRS.

Also the FRS clutch is shit.

JR1 > Manuél Ferrari
04/09/2014 at 19:21

You summed it up pretty well. If you live in Kansas a muscle car is great! But if you live five minutes from the Tail of the Dragon you'd be nuts not to have a lightweight nimble sports car.

JR1 > Jayhawk Jake
04/09/2014 at 19:25

I am not saying 0-60 is important and I even said the Miata does feel faster. I just wanted to make a visual of how slow a Miata actually is. But thank you for saying I made a valid point. I do think the Miata might be the best value but it certainly is not the most interesting option.

JR1 > Saracen
04/09/2014 at 19:27

I'm not focused on horsepower. I just think that a Miata isn't always the best option. Take an MG for example. An MG is just as cheap, more interesting, and probably just as fun.

JR1 > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
04/09/2014 at 19:28

How does the BRZ/FRS have good HP, 0-60, or lateral-G? Same with the GM twins.

Saracen > JR1
04/09/2014 at 19:34

You should express that in your piece, then...it is entirely focused on how slow the Miata is, and how you can get similar cars with more power.

JR1 > Bluecold
04/09/2014 at 19:34

Different engine possibly, potentially better styling, I think it would be a better and more interesting choice. http://jalopnik.com/alfa-romeos-ve…

JR1 > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time
04/09/2014 at 19:37

There are still other options besides just the Miata. I am not saying it is a bad option but it is also ignorant to say it is the only option. Plus MG:

Kinja'd!!!

Manuél Ferrari > JR1
04/09/2014 at 19:39

Yeah I think people do start out as "muscle car guys" or "Miata guys" based on whatever they got into to start out with. And that may have been influenced by what your friends or family were into.

But over time a lot of us expand our horizons and realize that cars are tools and different tools are good for different jobs. I wasn't originally a muscle car guy. But I'm starting to dig muscle cars or and more because 90% of my driving is on straight roads. RWD+V8 is pretty damn awesome when you're constantly slowing down and speeding up and occasionally cornering. It might use a lot of gas but it sounds great and gives you some fun every time you're able to stomp on the gas a bit.

JR1 > Burrito de EJ25
04/09/2014 at 19:40

What is wrong with being a philistine?

Kinja'd!!!

Looks pretty fun to me!

JR1 > davedave1111
04/09/2014 at 19:40

What about the options I just mentioned above? Those are fun and affordable.

JR1 > Saracen
04/09/2014 at 19:42

I suppose I did stress it a little much and I am kicking myself for not adding the MG in as a viable alternative.

JR1 > Manuél Ferrari
04/09/2014 at 19:45

Muscle cars are great, sports cars are great, even 50s land yachts are great. It goes back to the cardinal rule. Thou shall love what thou drives, and thou shall drive what thou loves.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > JR1
04/09/2014 at 19:46

Yea because a 70's car has the same feel and build quality of a "modern" car. I understand there are other good options but the reason the Miata is as popular as it is, is because there are no competitors to it. Its cheap, reliable and puts smile on your face

JR1 > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time
04/09/2014 at 19:49

It isn't that popular though anymore go look at their sales compared to competitors. In a lot of ways the Miata is surpassed by the competitors in sales figures. It is a great option and I love the car but it shouldn't always be the answer for everything.

Manuél Ferrari > JR1
04/09/2014 at 19:51

Exactly! Different cars are good for different people and different purposes.

So in reality Miata is not always the answer. No car is always the answer and no car will ever always be the answer. Unless someone invents a transformer car that can magically change from a Miata to a V8 Mustang to a 911 GT3 to a 4X4 Suburban. That would be sweet!

OkCars- 22k Crossroads > JR1
04/09/2014 at 20:16

Please, dont deny it, you dont think miatas are the best because they lack horsepower and i agree with you. Muscle car is the better answer. Depends on the person.

OkCars- 22k Crossroads > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
04/09/2014 at 20:18

Thats why nobody gives a shit if mustang is poor in handling, because is so much fun to drive! I tell you all of us will have different opinions, different tastes, so theres no general car that suits all of us.

Manuél Ferrari > JR1
04/09/2014 at 20:27

One thing I forgot to tell you - it's funny how different my perception of the 997 is on different roads. It's a fairly low-optioned car. 6MT with no electronic dampers. When I drive it around town where I live it feels like it's worth what I paid cause the roads are decent and dat stick is so fun to operate. When I leave town and go canyon carving it feels like it's worth more than I paid because the sensation you get is so sublime.

But when I drive it over a crappy and congested highway that has bad pavement, potholes and constant traffic it feels like a 1962 VW Bug, lol. I think one of my fillings is loose from a long drive through traffic last week.

davedave1111 > JR1
04/09/2014 at 20:29

Too quick to be insurable in the UK. They're fast, but slow-car-fast and all that. Not sure they're what the MX-5 is supposed to be, which isn't disparaging them in any way.

A Fiat Panda 0.9 Twinair turbo weighs 975kg - just under a ton - as standard. By the time you make a roadster out of it, it should be down below 900kg, just about. 85 bhp ought to be enough to make it reasonably rapid without being too quick. Great fuel economy, too.

Sports cars ought to be for young people, not just those old enough to afford them.

JR1 > Manuél Ferrari
04/09/2014 at 20:33

Hahaha no car was built to handle constant traffic and potholes no matter how wonderful it is in town or on a winding road. Congested traffic on a highway is not only car guy hell but just hell in general for everyone and every car.

Manuél Ferrari > JR1
04/09/2014 at 20:34

That comparison isn't super fair because not everyone wants to buy and maintain a classic. The Miata is basically a more modern and reliable MG. So maybe the question isn't "Is Miata Always the Answer" but "Is a Small Roadster Always the Answer"

JR1 > Manuél Ferrari
04/09/2014 at 20:37

That is a good point but a $3500 dollar car is hardly a large investment. Furthermore you might get lucky and not have to deal with many issues. If however you are looking for a daily driver out of a Miata I agree with you it is silly to be comparing it to a classic.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > JR1
04/09/2014 at 20:37

Ah ok but how many other vehicles have tried to kill it but have died off? Honda, Saturn, Pontiac.... Yes the NC is less of a purist miata but it still sells pretty well.

As for it being the answer, i own one as a DD and it does everything i need it to do and very well. It all comes down to what you want in a car and the Miata does that for me

Manuél Ferrari > JR1
04/09/2014 at 20:41

True that no car can be 100% perfect in all situations. But there are cars that are decent in all areas even if not perfect in any one.

An example is the M3. IMO the handling of a stock E46 or E9X M3 isn't as "telepathic" as the Carrera that was available new when those cars were new. But it still handles really well. And while the M3 doesn't handle potholes and traffic better than a luxobarge does it feels like a luxobarge compared to my 911.

I also have an E46 M3 (also stock) and the ride quality is night and day better than the 997. It soaks up bumps like an S Class compared to the 997, lol

Manuél Ferrari > JR1
04/09/2014 at 20:45

I agree that $3500 isn't too much to spend. I was mostly talking about the DD aspect that you brought up. If someone only has the money or garage space for one car then the Miata is a more practical choice than the MG.

But even in that case I don't think a small roadster is always the answer. It might be, depending on where the owner lives and how much people/cargo space they need.

I'll be really interested to see how the new Mustang handles. If the new suspension and the weight drop makes the base Mustang handle a lot better then it could become a pretty awesome all around value.

JR1 > Manuél Ferrari
04/09/2014 at 20:46

M3 is indeed an excellent all around car. That is why it is one of the most universally loved. I never would have guessed it rides so much better than a 911 however. I guess it is technically still a luxury car though so it would make sense.

JR1 > Manuél Ferrari
04/09/2014 at 20:48

I live in Ohio so I do not in any way see a small roadster being a good DD. But that is due to my location. If I lived in perhaps Florida or California I would be ok with DDing a small roadster.

The new Mustang could be quite a tempting offer considering the current V6 is already a pretty great choice. IR could do wonders for the car.

Manuél Ferrari > JR1
04/09/2014 at 20:53

And you can use it for Costco runs and fill the trunk and back seat with stuff!

The 997 Carrera S came with PASM standard. That probably helped with ride quality a lot since you could pick between 3 damper settings.

I have driven a base 991 Carrera without PASM and the ride quality was markedly improved over the base 997. The longer wheelbase and revised chassis made it a lot more comfy. But the longer wheelbase made it a little less nimble too. There is no free lunch when it comes to dynamics.. Well there kind of is on the GT3 since the 4 wheel steering shortens the wheelbase during cornering. But the GT3 is the opposite of free, lol

Manuél Ferrari > JR1
04/09/2014 at 20:59

It's awesome how Ford and GM have upped their games. The current Mustangs and Camaros already embarrass a lot of more expensive cars on some tracks. And the cars will only get better with each generation.

It kind of seems like the next Mustang GT will be like an American BMW E92 M3. Not exactly like it but kind of similar. DOHC N/A V8 + RWD + independent suspension. And the next GT might actually weigh less too. Can't wait to see the first video reviews.

mr. idk > Saracen
04/09/2014 at 21:46

there is no such thing as being too focused on horsepower, when it comes to sports cars. regardless of how much of it you want.

JR1 > Manuél Ferrari
04/09/2014 at 22:51

This is true. And maybe it is just nostalgia. Can you have nostalgia for a 911 that is only one generation old? But I prefer the 997 to the 991. It just looks a little better and seems a little more focused than the 991. Of course I haven't driven either so I am just speaking from reviews and personal feelings.

JR1 > Manuél Ferrari
04/09/2014 at 22:53

Very excited for the new Mustang, but I would say just about any car enthusiast should be excited for a new Mustang. What I really want to see however is a new SRT Cuda. I know that has been the general rumor for a few years now but I have high hopes for that possible car.

Stef Schrader > JR1
04/09/2014 at 23:12

944 > Miata.

I didn't have to buy my roof extra, foo'.

Zibodiz > JR1
04/10/2014 at 00:15

The Miata is, to my eye, one of the prettiest cars available, however an MGB or TR6 manage to edge it out. In spite of that, I'd still take the Miata, if for no other reason, because of the reliability. Even if the MGB and TR6 had reliability as legendary as a Miata, they've still got an extra 20+ years of wear & tear on them. That's a serious concern for someone who isn't able to pay top-dollar for a restored classic.

Manuél Ferrari > JR1
04/10/2014 at 00:18

Nostalgia definitely has a part in it. The first real sports car I ever drove was my old man's '82 911SC. My car reminds me of his and it's a cool feeling. And what's funny is that its quirks and stiffness are what make it so awesome when you want to drive a pure feeling sports car. They're only annoying when you have to commute in it and get stuck in bad traffic on bad roads.

I think it's possible to have nostalgia for a car that's only one generation old. I like the hydraulic power steering in the 997 better than the 991. I do like the looks of the 991 so that is a wash for me. The 991 is a better everyday car because it's a bit bigger and more comfy so it has that going for it. But I haven't had a chance to push it hard around tight turns so I dunno if it has lost some of the 997's nimbleness.

As good as the 991's reviews are I think the real treat will be the replacement. The next car will be an evolution of the 991 chassis as the 997 was an evolution of the 996. Instead of growing in size the next car will be refined and have more power. It should be pretty amazing.

Manuél Ferrari > JR1
04/10/2014 at 00:19

True every enthusiast should be. But some people only like cars from one country. Or some people are Chevy people and hate Fords, lol.

A new SRT Cuda would be awesome!

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > JR1
04/10/2014 at 01:40

...and most likley 2x the price. It won't be cheap, if its going to be put up against the Z4 etc.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2015-alfa…

Jobjoris > JR1
04/10/2014 at 05:13

At first in your post I could not help wondering why in the world you would say the GM twins were better than a Miata? They're not around any more so something's not really good with them otherwise they would be still around one way or the other, blaming that only on the GM bankruptcy is a bit easy. Second I see a reply which states 'it's not all about 0-60, HP and lateral G's and you reply with 'How does the BRZ have good HP'?

The only important thing is this: Did you drive all these cars your self and made a personal opinion based on that. I did (although the 'GM-twin' was a euro Opel GT and the Scion FR-S was a euro Toyota GT86) and as much as I loved the GT86 it could not bring me as much joy as the Miata could, it's all about having that top down. The GM twins were really not that well made in my opinion: cheap plastic for interior, not much interior-space to leave small stuff like you cell-phone, I could really not see me using that everyday. And I could see myself using a Miata every day. Although I ended up buying a slightly used Z4 3.0 back then. So maybe that's the ultimate answer.

Jobjoris > JR1
04/10/2014 at 05:14

You do realize the Alfa/Fiat never would have happened without the new Miata right?

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > JR1
04/10/2014 at 10:07

I didn't say they did.

Only that you compare the GM twins 0-60 times as being faster, and use that as a justification for saying the Miata is inferior because it's slower.

By all accounts the GM twins are not as nimble, lively, or as well balanced as a Miata. They can still be fun to drive, but around here we prefer cars great cars. Mediocrity is a terrible waste of good machinery.

Burrito de EJ25 > JR1
04/10/2014 at 15:35

*yawn*

BlackLab > JR1
04/12/2014 at 15:58

Kinja'd!!!

New answer 2015 Mustang. Sure its heavier and doesn't handle as well but it makes a lot more power which compensates. The Miata is a great car too but it lacks the macho quality guys want in their car and frankly is just too small for a grown man. I am 6'4" 225 pounds. I don't want a Miata - just seems too small for a daily driver.

My gripe with Miata is it started the whole 'slow car fast' BS. No a car with great balance and handling can be fun without tons of power. Its still more fun with power. :P

I rented a Jeep Grand Cherokee (might been a 2013) and that thing was both slow and not fun compared to the car I drive daily. Slow cars aren't fun at all - try driving a big moving truck. "fun" isn't the adjective that comes to mind..

JR1 > BlackLab
04/13/2014 at 12:33

Why can't the answer be Mustang all the time? Cheap V8 power and a manual will always be fun. More fun than a Miata which is slow. I suppose I just like my cars to have a kick to them.

lasdla > JR1
04/13/2014 at 20:02

LOL wtf is this crap. The Solstice is a giant piece of plastic dog shit. Drive one and report back. The reason why the GT86 isnt as popular around here is becuase it's a new car. Give it 15-20 years then come back. The amount of people driving 1999-2002 Miatas outweight the GT86 ones. And 0-60 times are worthless, unless all your doing is dragging. Maybe try going around a road course or an actual backroad? Some how I get the idea that you've actually never a driven a car before since your argument only rests on statistics on paper, not emotion.

Beju > JR1
04/13/2014 at 20:31

"Might" get lucky is an understatement, and it's probably not happening for $3500.

I own a 1978 Suzuki GS550, so I have some experience with vintage vehicle ownership. Unless you get really lucky, things constantly need attention, and you might need parts that are no longer made and cannot be had in good condition at any price (rubber airbox to carb boots, in my case). You'll also need tools and a place to work on it yourself, otherwise things get expensive very quickly.

Oh, and carbs are the devil.

greenagain > JR1
04/13/2014 at 20:35

Kinja'd!!!

JR1 > Beju
04/13/2014 at 21:15

Not trying to be a pain but what makes carbs so horrible?

Beju > JR1
04/13/2014 at 22:23

Well, I should specify that they're a pain on my motorcycle. On my old 1985 Accord, the 4 barrel single carb didn't need any dicking around with, no matter what the weather was. Of course, the Accord did have a primitive engine management unit.

My Suzuki, OTOH has 4 cylinders, 4 carbs, and nothing resembling an ECU, like most 70s era Japanese motorcycles. On the way home after buying the motorcycle, something went amiss with the carbs and the bike wouldn't run without the choke on. I paid to get the carbs cleaned out, and it ran fine for a few days until something got stuck in one of the floats. I found this out after the bike puked out the contents of the fuel tank from one of the carb overflow hoses. Thankfully, the shop honored their work and took apart and cleaned the carbs again. Now it runs reliably, but is getting 25mpg when it should be doing at least low 30s in the city, so something's still not right.

Really, I need to replace the carb intake pipes, O-rings for the intake pipes and carbs, and airbox boots, because rubber bits on 30+ year old vehicles are probably all bad or about to go bad. But... I can't replace the airbox boots, because they aren't made anymore, and any new old stock is probably dry rotted anyway. Turns out that buying a 35 year old vehicle without having a place to work on it myself wasn't the greatest idea. I can replace the air box with K&N pod filters, but then I'll need carb dyno tuning to properly compensate for the increased airflow (no ECU/MAF to compensate on it's own). There are plenty of local shops that do tuning for FI vehicles, but it turns out that a lot of old motorcycle tuners packed up shop for good during the recession. After all, even Harley Davidsons have been all FI since the 2007 model year.

Even when I get things running right, there will still be some fiddling necessary if I want to ride the bike in cool fall weather. Due to age and the Brit reputation, I'd guess that owning a vintage MG will be a lot more like my Suzuki than my 1985 Accord. That's fine if you don't mind spending a lot of time working on vehicles to get them to simply work, but if you want to spend your time driving and your wrenching on aftermarket performance additions, you're better off with a Miata. I should know, I owned a 1997 M-Edition that a friend still owns.

Dat-Driver > JR1
04/14/2014 at 01:59

Miata is the answer for me, i get my first car in a few months, i love cars so much i would rather be at a dealership then at some NFL game (I live in Dallas so we have no hope). i want track days, a car that is fun in the corners, a roadster. i see your point but as i want something for the track and the road, the Miata is best, i love to cruise around the lakes, and love Downtown, where i take many photos, and Miatas are sportier cars that are more affordable. the Miata may not be the best for you but to me it is the one, the car of m dreams, stick a Cosworth Supercharger on it and you have huge amounts of power on tap in a small light car. (I can only get a Manual if i get a Miata) Miatas are British sports cars without all the repair bills.

Noroxus > McLarry
04/14/2014 at 04:47

So basically it's a super expensive, girl's E36.

orbix42 > Stef Schrader
04/14/2014 at 09:43

RWD FTW, among other things.

That said, I'm pretty sure the Miata doesn't have overly needy timing belts, nor does every freaking part on the car cost roughly double what seems reasonable...

willconltd > JR1
04/14/2014 at 10:08

What you are missing is that the Miata was pretty much the only cheap no compromise sports car design on the market for the last 20 years. Everything else was a derivative of some other economy car, so it was always a compromise to make the production business case. Hard core track guys never considered the miata to be a girls car. Only ignorant corvette drivers who always pass on the straights and then slow down and hold up traffic in all the corners. Granted it wasn't powerful, but people have fixed that with everything from 13Bs to LS6s. The motor isn't really the point. It can handle, and finding a car that can actually handle really well for less than $4000 on the used market is damned near impossible.

willconltd > JR1
04/14/2014 at 10:12

Just think how much better your 1970s MG would be with the double wishbone suspension and LSD from a Miata. Its been done 1000 times by guys in their garage, its a dramatic improvement that just shows you how great that $3000 Miata you found on craigslist is.

willconltd > Manuél Ferrari
04/14/2014 at 10:14

No, a Miata is a more modern and reliable Lotus Elan. ;)

willconltd > JR1
04/14/2014 at 10:16

The only time that Miata is not the answer is when you need a pickup truck.

mgeoffriau > JR1
04/14/2014 at 11:04

This is the dumbest thing I've seen today so far. Granted, it's not yet 10 AM, but it's pretty strong.

The reason the Miata is great is because it offers a true driver's car at extremely low cost of entry. I snagged my current Miata (1994 R-package) for $1200. The interior was rough, but it had no rust, solid paint, and a strong engine. Tell me again why a $25,000 car that weighs nearly 3,000 lbs is a better choice? So that I can drag-race minivans?

And if I really wanted to spend $25,000, I'd be much more sorely tempted by an LSx Miata than I would any of your suggestions. With the massive aftermarket, you can have a Miata in any flavor — slow, fun, and cheap roadster; straight-line drag car; autocross beast; track day champion — you name it, you can do it. $8000 and a few weekends would build a nice NA Miata with a fantastic suspension and a turbo kit that puts you somewhere around 220-240 WHP in a 2400 lb car. More than enough to handle your insecurity when you're lined up next to a Honda Odyssey.

As for the desperate attempt to change the argument by adding the MG...seriously? Slower, poorer handling, worse reliability, more expensive parts, less livable for daily use...

mgeoffriau > JR1
04/14/2014 at 11:04

This is the dumbest thing I've seen today so far. Granted, it's not yet 10 AM, but it's pretty strong.

As for the desperate attempt to change the argument by adding the MG...seriously? Slower, poorer handling, worse reliability, more expensive parts, less livable for daily use...

McLarry > Noroxus
04/14/2014 at 11:39

GumballinGoat > JR1
04/14/2014 at 12:26

Finally, someone brought this up on Oppo. Two of my friends own the Kappa twins, one friend with a GM Stage 1 and ZZP downpipe on his automatic Sky RL, and the other with a Magnetic (Carbon Flash Metallic) Manual GXP Solstice, again with GM Stage 1. These cars a good. Real good. I've driven both, and considering they were sold with crap A/S tires, a good set of tires and the GM Warrantied tune is good for sub 5 seconds to 60, with no lift shift being added to the manuals on the tune (Same feature stock on Cobalt/HHR SS turbo's, but they didn't get them because the cars came out later). And you can get a nice used one with under 50k miles (08+ GXP/RL because why bother with being slow, and 07 diff's are questionable) for around 14-16k depending on where you live, and not so much anymore, but they used to dominate SCCA AutoX so much that they got bumped up a class. Oh, and the automatic ones will do burnouts for days.

JR1 > GumballinGoat
04/14/2014 at 12:36

Let us not forget they are far better looking than just about any Miata. And they have a good dealership network comported to a Miata where you would have to search hard for a Mazda dealer.

GumballinGoat > JR1
04/14/2014 at 13:10

Kinja'd!!!

Everyone loves the sky more, it's a more "love it right now" car because everything is angular. EVERY. SINGLE. CAR. And it's nice, also, the xenon's are a welcome addition in the sky over the halogens in the solstice. Which, are actually gigantic, here it is in reference to the average persons head. And a 2008 Sky Redline in Carbon Flash metallic is one beautiful car. But after seeing the Sky for so long with my friends car, it's become meh to me. And very quickly I started looking at Solstices over the Sky. Day in and day out and 30 years from now it will look good. Plus the passenger gets a "oh shit" handle. It's needed.

JR1 > GumballinGoat
04/14/2014 at 13:36

Good lord I had no idea the headlights were that large. I think both cars will end up being future classics. The rarity and good looks will make them highly sought after.

Ultrakill > orbix42
04/14/2014 at 14:10

944 is also FR layout but nice try.

Ultrakill > Beju
04/14/2014 at 14:18

I find it odd that you bring up HD motorcycles after talking so much about Japanese bikes. HD makes the crappiest of crap of motorcycles I've seen. I don't think I would want to ride one even if it was free (and they are not). HD started using FI at least 10 years after every other bike manufacturer.

orbix42 > Ultrakill
04/14/2014 at 15:53

I was indeed wrong, but opposite what you thought- I thought the Miata was FWD for some reason. I've owned three different 944s, but never had the opportunity to drive a Miata, sadly.

Harley > JR1
04/14/2014 at 15:56

What helps is to get over the 0-60 time/hp/torque insecurity and just choose the car you have the most fun in. Thinking "oh sure 7 seconds was fine in the days of the Integra GS-R but this is 2014" is pointless. Humans are the same creatures they were in 1999, if 0-60 in 7 seconds could be fun then,it can be fun now.

A Miata is fun doing WOT right turns from a stop sign in an office park at legal speeds. It's not as "good" as a Cayman, but you can't flog a modern Porsche with impunity on city roads (even a Boxster.)

This is why it was a mistake for me to trade in a 2002 Miata for a 2004 Mazdaspeed MX-5. It is also part of why my GTI isn't as fun as a Miata, and still wouldn't be if it were rwd.

GumballinGoat > JR1
04/14/2014 at 16:08

Honestly, a "best buy" for me would be a 09 GXP Manual Coupe in Merlot Jewel Metallic, same paint code as the favored 06 GTO Spice Red Metallic.

JR1 > Harley
04/14/2014 at 18:12

Honestly anything with RWD and lightness becomes a formula for success.

Beju > Ultrakill
04/14/2014 at 18:49

How is it odd? I brought up HD in a context saying that even archaic, tradition bound HD has been all FI for a while, which coupled with the Great Recession, has limited choices for shops that do carb dyno tuning.

I wasn't making any statements about reliability of Japanese bikes, merely pointing out that shit goes wrong in 30+ year old vehicles. My Suzuki GS550 doesn't really have a lot of problem areas besides the weak charging system (undersized regulator/rectifier compared to contemporary Honda bikes, meh stator), but things, particularly rubber things, wear/age out.

RotaryLover > JR1
04/15/2014 at 18:44

Numbers isn't everything. It's not a fast car but it does feel faster than it is and that's better than having a car with a lot more power where 60 km/h feels like going 30 km/h IMO on the public roads. You are basicly invisible to the cops and the insurance is super cheap compared to all the other RWD sports cars. The only complaint I have is the gearing on the highway, it kinda cuts into the fun since you feel like you're over working the engine at 120 km/h so you kinda reduce your speed on the highway. The Miata would be the answer to those who want cheap thrills at lower speeds and don't want speeding tickets.